Just My Remarks on Pastor Orlaer’s Comments (Part 3)

We are now in part 3 on my comments and I’m now going to tackle some of Pastor Vince issues using the Christian Bible.

Suffering (A Question on Job’s Theodicy)

There was this site that Pastor Vince recommended that we Freethinker should read regarding why do good people suffer.

After reading it, I notice that it is quite typical for Christians to use the Book of Job to explain this theological dilemma. The Book of Job seems to be a good case in point why God allow good people to suffer…or does it?

Unfortunately to Pastor Vince, the Book of Job fall short in accomplishing such task.

In the first chapter of the said book, we find Satan have tempted God in an issue regarding Job and his faith. Well…well…well…I thought God cannot be tempted? Now, in the first part of the test, God killed Job’s family…that I think is test one.

I thought God is omniscient? God perfectly and eternally knows all things which can be known, past, present, and future. So why do he need to give a test to Job? Surely he does not need to test Job’s faith because He already knows the entire outcome.

Why would God kill the herdsmen, the shepherds, the camel care-takers and Jobs’ sons and daughters? What did they do to be killed? Job is the one who is the subject of the test, is he? These other people have their own lives and family.

Christians will quickly answer this by saying that since God gave us life, he has the right to take it back to us. Really? Is that a moral thing to do? If I gave someone something…like a gift, or blood…can I just demand to take it back? Are Christians telling me that God is such an “Indian giver”…there’s always a string attached on his gifts?

What is shocking on the Book of Job is that the whole story is really not about Job’s fidelity. Nope…the so-called test is not about Job, nor his faith, it’s about a conversation between God and Satan. God is just proving to Satan that he was right, so he allow Satan to inflict harm to Job and his family. Good grief!

Somewhere in the middle of the story, Job was allowed to see God and to ask the reason of his suffering. But instead of giving a clear answer, this braggart (that Pastor Vince called “God”) did is to boast his inflated ego all over the pages of the book…Wow! Talk about a bigheaded son of a bitch!

So why will I worship such a jerk?

According to Bro. Tom people suffer because of these five reasons: Adam’s sin, other people sin, our own sin, satanic oppression and God’s chastening hand.

Ok…

Now why am I being punish for Adam’s sin? After all he and his wife are the one who ate the “apple”, not me. (Note Deuteronomy 24:16 says: The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.)

Why will God harm others on the sin of someone? Why will God send famine and pestilence to kill innocent children to punish other people? Why would God send storms or flood to some impoverish community in Bangladesh to punish a sinner living in a large penthouse in Beverly Hills, California?

Oh and now we must blame Satan? Base on Job’s story Satan needs to get God’s approval first before he can make any damage, right? So why blame the “Yes Man”. It’s God’s call, not Satan’s.

So just like these pastors, theologians and parishioners both Pastor Vince and Bro. Tom is still struggling to find the answer to their own question and by using the Book of Job, the issue in “why do good people suffer” became more problematic that ever.

Who’s Right?

Pastor Vince: Yes, the Bible will be contradicting to itself my friend espcially if the one interpreting the Scriptures interprets it all literally and as is without understanding the Bible itself.

I will not explain more of the Bible since it will be a one BIG GIANT topic to discuss. But I can assure you that most

 if not all of the passages quoted by the article you cited are simply a bunch of misinterpretations.

(The guy was reacting on this site.)

Who’s making a bunch of misinterpretations?

Ah…the self-authenticating witness of the Holy Spirit eh?

Pastor Vince, if I will put you in a police lineup, together with the Roman Catholics, the Mormons, the ADD, the INC and the Pentecostals all of you guys will claim that you are “right” and everybody else is wrong. All of you are claiming certain knowledge on theological or biblical hermeneutical background.

Just an illustration: Let us look at your Matthew 16:17.

Your interpretation here is that it is telling us that faith is enough to be in heaven…Let me refresh your memory:

Biblical teaching says from Ephesians 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Matt 16:17; Eph 1:19;

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Rom 3:27; Col 1:29;

10 For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them.

To summarize this:

Grace (Coming from God) + Faith (coming from man) = Salvation

Totally different from what Catholic Church teaches:

Grace + Faith + Works = Salvation.

Roman Catholics interpret this differently. For them this is a proof that that Peter should be the first Pope. According to the notes on the New American Bible, “[13-20] The Marcan confession of Jesus as Messiah, made by Peter as spokesman for the other disciples (Mark 8:27-29; cf also Luke 9:18-20), is modified significantly here. The confession is of Jesus both as Messiah and as Son of the living God (Matthew 16:16). Jesus' response, drawn principally from material peculiar to Matthew, attributes the confession to a divine revelation granted to Peter alone (Matthew 16:17) and makes him the rock on which Jesus will build his church (Matthew 16:18) and the disciple whose authority in the church on earth will be confirmed in heaven, i.e., by God (Matthew 16:19)”.

Beside, the Bible also justifies faith with works. Jesus says that we need to do certain actions before we can be in heaven (see: Mt 5:16; Mt 13:3-9; Mt 16:27; Mt 25:34-36; Mark 10:17-25). You should also read James 3:14-26). Base on these passages…Roman Catholic can justify Grace + Faith + Works = Salvation.

Let’s face it; Christian interprets the Bible to fit their agenda. Martin Luther (1483-1541) created Sola fide to free him on his guilt so he can find inner peace. That is why most evangelical Christians teach the same doctrine…it all boils down to Martin Luther...to the Protestant Reformation.

There is really no truth in biblical hermeneutics or these so-called interpretations. It’s not interpretation but rather justifications of a certain denomination’s doctrine.

Ciao!